[jdom-interest] RE:jdom-interest digest, Vol 1 #843 - 13 msgs

Tue Feb 12 23:38:24 PST 2002

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Today's Topics:

   1. Re: JDOM vs electric (Dennis Sosnoski)
   2. RE: JavaOne presentations (flame) (Kevin Jones)
   3. NoClassDefFoundError: java/util/LinkList (Fellows, Nina L)
   4. RE: JDOM vs electric (graham glass)
   5. Re: JDOM vs electric (Dennis Sosnoski)
   6. Re: JavaOne presentations (flame) (Bob_Lee at averydennison.com)
   7. JavaOne presentations (flame) (Jason Hunter) (Peter.H.Roberts at bbh.com)
   8. Using JDOM to manipulate HTML (Eric Ace)
   9. getText() and getAttributeValue() (Trimmer, Todd)
  10. Re: getText() and getAttributeValue() (Jon Baer)
  11. RE: JDOM vs electric (graham glass)
  12. RE: NoClassDefFoundError: java/util/LinkList (Alex Rosen)
  13. Re: JDOM vs electric (Dennis Sosnoski)

--__--__--

Message: 1
Date: Tue, 12 Feb 2002 01:45:07 -0800
From: Dennis Sosnoski <dms at sosnoski.com>
To: Justin Wood <Justin.Wood at mgxgroup.com>
CC: jdom-interest at jdom.org
Subject: Re: [jdom-interest] JDOM vs electric

You can see my performance comparison on XML developerWorks (including 
JDOM, dom4j, EXML, etc.), at 
http://www-106.ibm.com/developerworks/xml/library/x-injava/index.html. 
There's a second article comparing usage that's been turned in to IBM 
since the beginning of October; hopefully it'll be published soon. :-)

I've got updated results all graphed up and ready for publication on my 
web site, whenever I can take the time to put the text together. Nothing 
has changed with JDOM since the earlier results were published on 
developerWorks, though - it's still beta 7. Whenever JDOM beta 8 is 
released it sounds like it should show some improvements.

  - Dennis

Justin Wood wrote:

>I had a look in the mail archives from last year regarding this topic.  Round about March Jason and Graham Glass (from the Mind Electric) did a bit of mudslinging.   
>
>http://www.servlets.com/archive/servlet/ReadMsg?msgId=7279&listName=jdom-interest
>
>Graham said he would amend his page:
>
>http://www.themindelectric.com/products/xml/jdom.html
>
>Which he hasn't done.   I'm sure that JDOM has come quite a way in the last year and this page is even more out of date.   Has anyone done a benchmark? Are there big differences, apart from the constuction of the XML object? Has anyone used both and done a pro's and cons?
>
>Regards
>Justin
>
>_______________________________________________
>To control your jdom-interest membership:
>http://lists.denveronline.net/mailman/options/jdom-interest/youraddr@yourhost.com
>

--__--__--

Message: 2
From: "Kevin Jones" <kevinj at develop.com>
To: <jdom-interest at jdom.org>
Subject: RE: [jdom-interest] JavaOne presentations (flame)
Date: Tue, 12 Feb 2002 15:57:25 -0000

Part of the problem is that the technical guys inside Sun seem to have
no say as to who does the talks. I did a BOF on Taglibs (sorry Jason) a
couple of years ago, after which I got invited onto the expert group
(sound of own trumpet blowing). We (as a company) they spoke to the Sun
leads on the expert group about getting 'big tent' talks, but they said
that basically they have no influence with Key3Media (the company that
arranges the conference).

And (after finally having talks accepted) I agree with Jason. The
process is nightmarish!

Kevin Jones
Developmentor
www.develop.com 

> -----Original Message-----
> From: jdom-interest-admin at jdom.org 
> [mailto:jdom-interest-admin at jdom.org] On Behalf Of Jon Baer
> Sent: 11 February 2002 22:36
> To: jdom-interest at jdom.org
> Subject: Re: [jdom-interest] JavaOne presentations (flame)
> 
> 
> Thank you, thank you, thank you.
> 
> Not for nothing, but I thought I was the only one who felt 
> like that.  I had personally wasted alot of time, energy, and 
> money @ these types of conferences (where it seemed like the 
> talker was very restricted and seemed smart but made no 
> sense) and yet when all is said and done I actually learn 
> more from free seminars/slides from people like Elliotte and 
> such.  Someone should tell Sun that when they try to be a 
> little "too controlling" they end up being like some other 
> company we know.  Now quite honestly I can understand that 
> some guidelines when applied to open source are needed to 
> avoid all out chaos but when you have done so much for the 
> community already and ur name is Jason Hunter with a few best 
> selling books out, why even question the slides to begin with?
> 
> - Jon
> 
> "Bosch, Mike" wrote:
> 
> > Which in addition you get the "privilege" of paying ~$$2000 
> to go and 
> > listen to corporate advertising.
> >
> > Count me out on the conference unless one of our vendors gets me in.
> >
> > -Mike
> >
> > -----Original Message-----
> > From: Bradley S. Huffman [mailto:hip at a.cs.okstate.edu]
> > Sent: Monday, February 11, 2002 1:09 PM
> > To: jdom-interest at jdom.org
> > Subject: Re: [jdom-interest] JavaOne presentations (flame)
> >
> > What do you expect when they are the head rats in charge of the 
> > cheese. I think for your talk you should dye your hair pink 
> and wear a 
> > t-shirt that says "Large coporate advertising disguised as a 
> > conference still sucks!"
> >
> > :->
> >
> > Jason Hunter writes:
> >
> > > Frank Sauer wrote:
> > > > Wow, do you work for SUN now? How in the world did you 
> get in in 
> > > > the first place? I wish I had to deal with the slide 
> nazis but I 
> > > > have
> > yet
> > > > to meet the first non-SUN JavaOne speaker. Just 
> venting, let's all 
> > > > vent
> > :-)
> > >
> > > Ha!  Good question.  The talk actually wasn't accepted at first.  
> > > And you're right, JavaOne is notorious for having dozens of talks 
> > > about Sun's favorite new technology (ie JSP taglibs) and 
> missing out 
> > > on whole swaths of interesting other technologies (ie Apache 
> > > Velocity).  Last year there were at least a dozen JAXP 
> talks.  As if 
> > > you couldn't understand all of JAXP in one short talk.  
> And JDOM was 
> > > left as an alternate talk.  This year I had to do a 
> little lobbying 
> > > after the initial refusal.  I think it helped that JDOM was a JSR 
> > > and that I'm Apache's representative to the JCP Executive 
> Committee.
> > _______________________________________________
> > To control your jdom-interest membership: 
> > 
> http://lists.denveronline.net/mailman/options/>
jdom-interest/youraddr at y
> > ourhos
> > t.com
> > _______________________________________________
> > To control your jdom-interest membership:
> > 
> http://lists.denveronline.net/mailman/options/jdom-interest/yo
uraddr at yourhost.com

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To control your jdom-interest membership:
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--__--__--

Message: 3
From: "Fellows, Nina L" <nina.fellows at eds.com>
To: "'jdom-interest at jdom.org'" <jdom-interest at jdom.org>
Date: Tue, 12 Feb 2002 10:27:33 -0600
Subject: [jdom-interest] NoClassDefFoundError: java/util/LinkList

Hi!

I have installed the jdom-b7, executed build and build samples, set up
JAVA_HOME, and added xerces.jar, jdom.jar and build\classes to the
classpath.  When running java samples.WarReader web.xml I receive

java.lang.NoClassDefFoundError: java/util/LinkedList
	at org.jdom.input.SAXHandler.<init>(SAXHandler.java:176)
	at
org.jdom.input.SAXBuilder.createContentHandler<SAXBuilder.java:323)
	at org.jdom.input.SAXBuilder.build(SAXBuilder.java:279)
	at org.jdom.input.SAXBuilder.build(SAXBuilder.java:617)
	at org.jdom.input.SAXBuilder.build(SAXBuilder.java:599)
	at samples.WarReader.read(Compiled Code)
	at samples.WarReader.main(WarReader.java:187)

Where is it looking to try and find the LinkedList.class?  Do I need to add
that to the classpath?  I found LinkedList.class in jdk1.2.2\jre\rt.jar and
JavaSoft\JRE\1.2\librt.jar, but added those directories to the classpath had
no effect.

Nina Fellows
nina.fellows at eds.com

--__--__--

Message: 4
From: "graham glass" <graham-glass at mindspring.com>
To: <jdom-interest at jdom.org>, "Justin Wood" <Justin.Wood at mgxgroup.com>
Subject: RE: [jdom-interest] JDOM vs electric
Date: Tue, 12 Feb 2002 10:40:25 -0600

hi there,

one new thing worth mentioning is that EXML+ 4.0, due out in a couple
of weeks, includes native support for DOM. so in addition to the
ease-of-use,
you now get native DOM compatability.

after releasing EXML+ 4.0, we'll rerun the benchmarks using xerces 2.0
and the latest version of DOM, and update the JDOM benchmark page.

EXML+ 4.0 also includes transparent bidirectional serialization of Java
objects to/from XML, Java persistence using XML, XML document pattern
matching
and many other goodies. it includes the source code for EXML and is free
for most commercial uses.

cheers,
graham

http://www.themindelectric.com

-----Original Message-----
From: jdom-interest-admin at jdom.org
[mailto:jdom-interest-admin at jdom.org]On Behalf Of Justin Wood
Sent: Tuesday, February 12, 2002 12:17 AM
To: jdom-interest at jdom.org
Subject: [jdom-interest] JDOM vs electric

I had a look in the mail archives from last year regarding this topic.
Round about March Jason and Graham Glass (from the Mind Electric) did a bit
of mudslinging.

http://www.servlets.com/archive/servlet/ReadMsg?msgId=7279&listName=jdom-int
erest

Graham said he would amend his page:

http://www.themindelectric.com/products/xml/jdom.html

Which he hasn't done.   I'm sure that JDOM has come quite a way in the last
year and this page is even more out of date.   Has anyone done a benchmark?
Are there big differences, apart from the constuction of the XML object? Has
anyone used both and done a pro's and cons?

Regards
Justin

_______________________________________________
To control your jdom-interest membership:
http://lists.denveronline.net/mailman/options/jdom-interest/youraddr@yourhos
t.com

--__--__--

Message: 5
Date: Tue, 12 Feb 2002 09:21:47 -0800
From: Dennis Sosnoski <dms at sosnoski.com>
To: graham glass <graham-glass at mindspring.com>
CC: jdom-interest at jdom.org, Justin Wood <Justin.Wood at mgxgroup.com>
Subject: Re: [jdom-interest] JDOM vs electric

Hi Graham,

When you update the page, I'd appreciate it if you'd add a link to my 
benchmarks as well (either that, or at least take out the line about 
being glad to link to other benchmarks).

For more representative results you should also look at doing a couple 
of things differently in your test case. If EXML+ 4.0 still discards 
whitespace sequences (in violation of the XML spec) you should use a 
test document which does not include any extra whitespace. You should 
also use something other than Xerces 1 as the parser for the JDOM test, 
since Xerces 1 shows very poor performance on small documents (Xerces 2 
is better). Finally, you should include dom4j as a comparison, since 
dom4j is considerably more mature than JDOM and includes a number of 
performance optimizations.

  - Dennis

graham glass wrote:

>hi there,
>
>one new thing worth mentioning is that EXML+ 4.0, due out in a couple
>of weeks, includes native support for DOM. so in addition to the
>ease-of-use,
>you now get native DOM compatability.
>
>after releasing EXML+ 4.0, we'll rerun the benchmarks using xerces 2.0
>and the latest version of DOM, and update the JDOM benchmark page.
>
>EXML+ 4.0 also includes transparent bidirectional serialization of Java
>objects to/from XML, Java persistence using XML, XML document pattern
>matching
>and many other goodies. it includes the source code for EXML and is free
>for most commercial uses.
>
>cheers,
>graham
>
>http://www.themindelectric.com
>
>-----Original Message-----
>From: jdom-interest-admin at jdom.org
>[mailto:jdom-interest-admin at jdom.org]On Behalf Of Justin Wood
>Sent: Tuesday, February 12, 2002 12:17 AM
>To: jdom-interest at jdom.org
>Subject: [jdom-interest] JDOM vs electric
>
>
>I had a look in the mail archives from last year regarding this topic.
>Round about March Jason and Graham Glass (from the Mind Electric) did a bit
>of mudslinging.
>
>http://www.servlets.com/archive/servlet/ReadMsg?msgId=7279&listName=jdom-int
>erest
>
>Graham said he would amend his page:
>
>http://www.themindelectric.com/products/xml/jdom.html
>
>Which he hasn't done.   I'm sure that JDOM has come quite a way in the last
>year and this page is even more out of date.   Has anyone done a benchmark?
>Are there big differences, apart from the constuction of the XML object? Has
>anyone used both and done a pro's and cons?
>
>Regards
>Justin
>
>_______________________________________________
>To control your jdom-interest membership:
>http://lists.denveronline.net/mailman/options/jdom-interest/youraddr@yourhos
>t.com
>
>
>_______________________________________________
>To control your jdom-interest membership:
>http://lists.denveronline.net/mailman/options/jdom-interest/youraddr@yourhost.com
>

--__--__--

Message: 6
From: Bob_Lee at averydennison.com
Subject: Re: [jdom-interest] JavaOne presentations (flame)
To: jdom-interest at jdom.org
Date: Tue, 12 Feb 2002 10:37:08 -0800

Jason, can you publish the "rejected" slides on the web for those of us
who won't be attending?  I've always enjoyed your talks.

     -Bob Lee

--__--__--

Message: 7
From: Peter.H.Roberts at bbh.com
To: jdom-interest at jdom.org
Date: Tue, 12 Feb 2002 14:21:07 -0500
Subject: [jdom-interest] JavaOne presentations (flame) (Jason Hunter)

In response to Jason,

     I used to go religiously to Java One, but have found it not very usefull, and did not go last year, and we are not going this year. As you said, it seems the information dolled out is dumbed down.  If I had gone I probably would have gone to your
talk, and then (horror) thought you were not as smart as I currently think. I really like JDOM, so my advice is don't go, but Java One is in SF and SF is beautifull in March. Try and give the talk at IBM WebSphere convention in May, I will be there. It's
beautifull in May also.

Peter:)

                    jdom-interest-admi                                                                            
                    n at jdom.org               To:     jdom-interest at jdom.org                                       
                                             cc:                                                                  
                    02/11/2002 02:04         Subject:     jdom-interest digest, Vol 1 #841 - 3 msgs               
                    AM                                                                                            
                    Please respond to                                                                             
                    jdom-interest                                                                                 

Send jdom-interest mailing list submissions to
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To subscribe or unsubscribe via the World Wide Web, visit
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or, via email, send a message with subject or body 'help' to
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When replying, please edit your Subject line so it is more specific
than "Re: Contents of jdom-interest digest..."

Today's Topics:

   1. Re: Jar-Archive (Joern Muehlencord)
   2. JavaOne presentations (flame) (Jason Hunte
   3. RE: JavaOne presentations (flame) (Frank Sauer)

-- __--__-- 

Message: 1
Date: Sat, 09 Feb 2002 18:15:33 +0100
From: Joern Muehlencord <joern at muehlencord.de>
To: Jason Hunter <jhunter at servlets.com>
Cc: jdom-interest <jdom-interest at jdom.org>
Subject: Re: [jdom-interest] Jar-Archive

Hi Jason,

> I believe when you "-jar" run a JAR file it ignores the classpath.
> You'd need to have supporting JARs in your MANIFEST.MF for them to be
> found.
That is right. I needed to include "Class-Path: jdom.jar" to the
manifest-file. xerces.jar is not needed - it is included bei jdom.jar.
Now it is ok, to put all three archives into one directory and start the
application out of the jar-file.

Thanx
 Joern

--
Linux is like a wigwam - no Windows, no Gates and Apache inside

-- __--__-- 

Message: 2
Date: Sun, 10 Feb 2002 18:11:30 -0800
From: Jason Hunter <jhunter at acm.org>
To: JDOM Interest <jdom-interest at jdom.org>
Subject: [jdom-interest] JavaOne presentations (flame)

I just have to vent, and this crowd seems like a fine place to vent
about this particular thing.

I'm presenting a talk on JDOM at JavaOne this year, and Oh My God, the
slide submittal process is horrid.  Absolutely draconian.  Unlike *every
other conference* I've spoken at (dozens), at JavaOne there are people
who critique your slides on various Rules.  These Rules are definitely
smart guidelines but at JavaOne they are literally *Rules*.  If you
don't pass each and every rule down the line, they don't let you give
you talk.

One sample rule:  You need a graphic on at least one out of every 6
pages.  Need it or not, appropriate or not, you need a graphic.  It's
supposed to keep your audience awake.  Well, I guess I have to come up
with a graphic for the section where I compare JDOM with DOM.  Any
ideas?  I wonder if a picture from Anna Kournikova's new calendar would
do.

Another rule:  You should have no more than six words per bullet point.
Wait, did I say "should"?  I mean MUST as in the W3C spec meaning of the
word.  Nothing longer than six words is <oops, cut, can't say anymore>.

That last one really bugs me.  I personally find JavaOne slides 100%
useless after the talk because of this rule.  I've downloaded slides in
years past from talks I couldn't attend.  Here's what you get:

* JVM Performance In Process
* Garbage Collection In Real Time

Oh yeah, I'm really learning now.  They say this rule is to keep the
point size up so you can read the slides during the show, but seems to
me:

* If you're in the show you're listening, not reading
* If you're not in the show, you can only read

(Notice the effective use of 9 word bullets there.)

So with big point sizes you can read my outline during the show, but
after I'm done talking, all the points are lost.

I was proud and I stood my moral ground and flaunted the rules -- I used
graphics only when I needed graphics and I tried to actually *say
something* with each bullet point.  But no.  The people reviewing the
talks actually counted my words and my graphic densities.  I failed.
I'm told I need to revise now.

What's really ironic is last year the same basic slide outline was
accepted.  I was just unlucky enough this year to get the Presentation
Nazi.  I can almost hear him yell:  "No presentation for you, one year!"

Maybe you're thinking I should obligingly bow to the "Rules" and be
tricky and bring my own slides in on a laptop on the presentation day.
No can do; they're on to that!  You can't bring your own laptop to
present.  Every other conference I've spoken at lets you.  Why not at
JavaOne?  They say it's to keep things simpler to setup, but really how
simple is it for me to load JDOM examples on their machine versus my
own??  Here's my theory: if anyone ever tries to make The Training
Alliance Nazis (tm) look bad (you know, someone in a bad mood -- try to
picture it), they'll know beforehand and have some leverage to encourage
you to change your slides.

I agree these guidelines make sense in general, but can we give the
speakers no credit?  The best talks I've ever attended have slides that
don't in any way follow the JavaOne Rules.  And some of the worst talks
I've ever attended have been at JavaOne.  Maybe they're trying to raise
up the quality of these poor talks by rigidly enforcing these rules.  I
think it's more likely they're creating poor talks by enforcing these
rules.

Ah well.  At least I can still say what I want on stage.  Um, probably.
I'll let you know if they actually let me speak live on stage or if it's
a tape recording.

-jh-

P.S.  Sun speakers suffer from this just as much as outside people.
This is another reason why no one at Sun looks very happy the month
before JavaOne.

P.P.S.  The slides haven't even gone to legal review yet.  Last year in
legal review they changed "JDOM" to "The Document Object Model for Java"
on me and for a long time refused to change it back.  You'd think they
would believe I knew the name of my project.

-- __--__-- 

Message: 3
Subject: RE: [jdom-interest] JavaOne presentations (flame)
Date: Sun, 10 Feb 2002 23:28:31 -0500
From: "Frank Sauer" <Frank.Sauer at trcinc.com>
To: "Jason Hunter" <jhunter at acm.org>, "JDOM Interest" <jdom-interest at jdom.org>

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--__--__--

Message: 8
Date: Tue, 12 Feb 2002 16:28:28 -0500
From: "Eric Ace" <ACE at rdacorp.com>
To: <jdom-interest at jdom.org>
Subject: [jdom-interest] Using JDOM to manipulate HTML

I want to use JDOM to manage presentation. Instead of using custom tags a la Struts, my thought is to have a presentation tier that queries business components and merges data into static HTML via JDOM. So, I need to be able to locate specific HTML elements by name or ID and modify them. For example:

<html>
...
<table id="tbl1">
<!-- Use Presentation component + JDOM to insert rows -->
</table>

I can ultimately get to the table I need to manipulate by getting all "table" elements, then looking for one that contains an ID attribute. What would be more programmatically clean though would be to manipulate the document via JDOM similarly to how I can via the DOM in JavaScript.

Am I completely missing the spirit of JDOM? Or, missing some fundamentally obvious point?

Thanks

-EAce

--__--__--

Message: 9
From: "Trimmer, Todd" <todd.trimmer at trizetto.com>
To: "'jdom-interest at jdom.org'" <jdom-interest at jdom.org>
Date: Tue, 12 Feb 2002 14:49:25 -0700
Subject: [jdom-interest] getText() and getAttributeValue()

For Element, if no textual content exists, getText() returns an empty
string. However, if getAttributeValue() is called for an attribute that does
not exist, null is returned. Why the inconsistency?

Under what circumstances would client code care to differentiate between an
attribute existing with empty string and the attibute not existing at all?

getAttributeValue() should return empty string if the attribute does not
exist because:
1) It makes it more consistent with getText()
2) One won't have to check for null on the return value.

Right now, my code is littered with:
String name = Parse.assure(elem.getAttributeValue("name"));
String id = Parse.assure(elem.getAttributeValue("id"));
// etc.

...where Parse.assure(String str) returns empty string if str is null; or
str unchanged if it is non-null. It sure would be nice to get rid of all
those checks.

Todd Trimmer

--__--__--

Message: 10
Date: Tue, 12 Feb 2002 17:01:01 -0500
From: Jon Baer <jonbaer at digitalanywhere.com>
To: jdom-interest at jdom.org
Subject: Re: [jdom-interest] getText() and getAttributeValue()

I agree =) + 1

return (attribute == null) ? null : attribute.getValue();
-to-
return (attribute == null) ? "" : attribute.getValue();

- Jon

"Trimmer, Todd" wrote:

> For Element, if no textual content exists, getText() returns an empty
> string. However, if getAttributeValue() is called for an attribute that does
> not exist, null is returned. Why the inconsistency?
>
> Under what circumstances would client code care to differentiate between an
> attribute existing with empty string and the attibute not existing at all?
>
> getAttributeValue() should return empty string if the attribute does not
> exist because:
> 1) It makes it more consistent with getText()
> 2) One won't have to check for null on the return value.
>
> Right now, my code is littered with:
> String name = Parse.assure(elem.getAttributeValue("name"));
> String id = Parse.assure(elem.getAttributeValue("id"));
> // etc.
>
> ...where Parse.assure(String str) returns empty string if str is null; or
> str unchanged if it is non-null. It sure would be nice to get rid of all
> those checks.
>
> Todd Trimmer
> _______________________________________________
> To control your jdom-interest membership:
> http://lists.denveronline.net/mailman/options/jdom-interest/youraddr@yourhost.com

--__--__--

Message: 11
From: "graham glass" <graham-glass at mindspring.com>
To: "Dennis Sosnoski" <dms at sosnoski.com>
Cc: <jdom-interest at jdom.org>, "Justin Wood" <Justin.Wood at mgxgroup.com>
Subject: RE: [jdom-interest] JDOM vs electric
Date: Tue, 12 Feb 2002 18:08:17 -0600

hi dennis,

we'll run your benchmarks independently to verify them.

the last time we chatted, it seemed like you were getting
significantly different results from us, which brought
setup and configuration issues to light.

cheers,
graham

-----Original Message-----
From: Dennis Sosnoski [mailto:dms at sosnoski.com]
Sent: Tuesday, February 12, 2002 11:22 AM
To: graham glass
Cc: jdom-interest at jdom.org; Justin Wood
Subject: Re: [jdom-interest] JDOM vs electric

Hi Graham,

When you update the page, I'd appreciate it if you'd add a link to my
benchmarks as well (either that, or at least take out the line about
being glad to link to other benchmarks).

For more representative results you should also look at doing a couple
of things differently in your test case. If EXML+ 4.0 still discards
whitespace sequences (in violation of the XML spec) you should use a
test document which does not include any extra whitespace. You should
also use something other than Xerces 1 as the parser for the JDOM test,
since Xerces 1 shows very poor performance on small documents (Xerces 2
is better). Finally, you should include dom4j as a comparison, since
dom4j is considerably more mature than JDOM and includes a number of
performance optimizations.

  - Dennis

graham glass wrote:

>hi there,
>
>one new thing worth mentioning is that EXML+ 4.0, due out in a couple
>of weeks, includes native support for DOM. so in addition to the
>ease-of-use,
>you now get native DOM compatability.
>
>after releasing EXML+ 4.0, we'll rerun the benchmarks using xerces 2.0
>and the latest version of DOM, and update the JDOM benchmark page.
>
>EXML+ 4.0 also includes transparent bidirectional serialization of Java
>objects to/from XML, Java persistence using XML, XML document pattern
>matching
>and many other goodies. it includes the source code for EXML and is free
>for most commercial uses.
>
>cheers,
>graham
>
>http://www.themindelectric.com
>
>-----Original Message-----
>From: jdom-interest-admin at jdom.org
>[mailto:jdom-interest-admin at jdom.org]On Behalf Of Justin Wood
>Sent: Tuesday, February 12, 2002 12:17 AM
>To: jdom-interest at jdom.org
>Subject: [jdom-interest] JDOM vs electric
>
>
>I had a look in the mail archives from last year regarding this topic.
>Round about March Jason and Graham Glass (from the Mind Electric) did a bit
>of mudslinging.
>
>http://www.servlets.com/archive/servlet/ReadMsg?msgId=7279&listName=jdom-in
t
>erest
>
>Graham said he would amend his page:
>
>http://www.themindelectric.com/products/xml/jdom.html
>
>Which he hasn't done.   I'm sure that JDOM has come quite a way in the last
>year and this page is even more out of date.   Has anyone done a benchmark?
>Are there big differences, apart from the constuction of the XML object?
Has
>anyone used both and done a pro's and cons?
>
>Regards
>Justin
>
>_______________________________________________
>To control your jdom-interest membership:
>http://lists.denveronline.net/mailman/options/jdom-interest/youraddr@yourho
s
>t.com
>
>
>_______________________________________________
>To control your jdom-interest membership:
>http://lists.denveronline.net/mailman/options/jdom-interest/youraddr@yourho
st.com
>

--__--__--

Message: 12
From: "Alex Rosen" <arosen at silverstream.com>
To: "'Fellows, Nina L'" <nina.fellows at eds.com>, <jdom-interest at jdom.org>
Subject: RE: [jdom-interest] NoClassDefFoundError: java/util/LinkList
Date: Tue, 12 Feb 2002 19:12:54 -0500

Which version of Java are you using? Since LinkedList is part of the JDK 1.2
and higher runtime, it should just work, if your JRE is not corrupt in some
way. If you're using JDK 1.1.x, you'll need to use the special 1.1
compatible version of JDOM in jdom11.jar. Check out the FAQ on this at
jdom.org.

Alex

> -----Original Message-----
> From: jdom-interest-admin at jdom.org
> [mailto:jdom-interest-admin at jdom.org]On Behalf Of Fellows, Nina L
> Sent: Tuesday, February 12, 2002 11:28 AM
> To: 'jdom-interest at jdom.org'
> Subject: [jdom-interest] NoClassDefFoundError: java/util/LinkList
>
>
> Hi!
>
> I have installed the jdom-b7, executed build and build samples, set up
> JAVA_HOME, and added xerces.jar, jdom.jar and build\classes to the
> classpath.  When running java samples.WarReader web.xml I receive
>
> java.lang.NoClassDefFoundError: java/util/LinkedList
> 	at org.jdom.input.SAXHandler.<init>(SAXHandler.java:176)
> 	at
> org.jdom.input.SAXBuilder.createContentHandler<SAXBuilder.java:323)
> 	at org.jdom.input.SAXBuilder.build(SAXBuilder.java:279)
> 	at org.jdom.input.SAXBuilder.build(SAXBuilder.java:617)
> 	at org.jdom.input.SAXBuilder.build(SAXBuilder.java:599)
> 	at samples.WarReader.read(Compiled Code)
> 	at samples.WarReader.main(WarReader.java:187)
>
> Where is it looking to try and find the LinkedList.class?  Do
> I need to add
> that to the classpath?  I found LinkedList.class in
> jdk1.2.2\jre\rt.jar and
> JavaSoft\JRE\1.2\librt.jar, but added those directories to
> the classpath had
> no effect.
>
>
> Nina Fellows
> nina.fellows at eds.com
>
>
>
> _______________________________________________
> To control your jdom-interest membership:
> http://lists.denveronline.net/mailman/options/jdom-interest/yo
uraddr at yourhost.com

--__--__--

Message: 13
Date: Tue, 12 Feb 2002 17:07:36 -0800
From: Dennis Sosnoski <dms at sosnoski.com>
To: graham glass <graham-glass at mindspring.com>
CC: jdom-interest at jdom.org, Justin Wood <Justin.Wood at mgxgroup.com>
Subject: Re: [jdom-interest] JDOM vs electric

Hi Graham,

In the latest set of tests I've added some collections of smaller 
documents. EXML does very well on small documents (especially the SOAP 
collection, not too surprisingly!). It still performs fairly poorly on 
larger documents, especially when the elimination of whitespace is taken 
into account.

As we'd discussed previously, the differences in results look to be due 
to several factors:

1. Your test uses a single very small document, of the type that EXML 
appears optimized for
2. You test only against JDOM running Xerces, which is kind of shooting 
fish in a barrel when it comes to performance comparisons. :-) If you're 
really interested in seeing how EXML performs you should test against 
some of the other alternatives.
3. EXML discards character data sequences consisting only of whitespace, 
and thereby uses a dramatically lower number of objects in the document 
representations; while this is fine for many applications, it biases the 
tests. It's also not compliant with the XML spec, and should at least be 
pointed out to users in your documentation
4. My tests are looking for the best performance the code is able to 
give, so I take the best time of several runs, while your test uses the 
average time; using average times for benchmarking applications using 
Hot Spot JVMs is questionable, if you're going to do this at all you 
need to run an extended series of test passes and discard all but the 
last few.
5. My tests use memory settings of -Xms64M and -Xmx64M to give the JVM 
plenty of memory; this is appropriate for a server enviroment, and makes 
a big difference in how well Hot Spot handles code. Your test run uses 
the default setting.

  - Dennis

graham glass wrote:

>hi dennis,
>
>we'll run your benchmarks independently to verify them.
>
>the last time we chatted, it seemed like you were getting
>significantly different results from us, which brought
>setup and configuration issues to light.
>
>cheers,
>graham
>
>-----Original Message-----
>From: Dennis Sosnoski [mailto:dms at sosnoski.com]
>Sent: Tuesday, February 12, 2002 11:22 AM
>To: graham glass
>Cc: jdom-interest at jdom.org; Justin Wood
>Subject: Re: [jdom-interest] JDOM vs electric
>
>
>Hi Graham,
>
>When you update the page, I'd appreciate it if you'd add a link to my
>benchmarks as well (either that, or at least take out the line about
>being glad to link to other benchmarks).
>
>For more representative results you should also look at doing a couple
>of things differently in your test case. If EXML+ 4.0 still discards
>whitespace sequences (in violation of the XML spec) you should use a
>test document which does not include any extra whitespace. You should
>also use something other than Xerces 1 as the parser for the JDOM test,
>since Xerces 1 shows very poor performance on small documents (Xerces 2
>is better). Finally, you should include dom4j as a comparison, since
>dom4j is considerably more mature than JDOM and includes a number of
>performance optimizations.
>
>  - Dennis
>
>graham glass wrote:
>
>>hi there,
>>
>>one new thing worth mentioning is that EXML+ 4.0, due out in a couple
>>of weeks, includes native support for DOM. so in addition to the
>>ease-of-use,
>>you now get native DOM compatability.
>>
>>after releasing EXML+ 4.0, we'll rerun the benchmarks using xerces 2.0
>>and the latest version of DOM, and update the JDOM benchmark page.
>>
>>EXML+ 4.0 also includes transparent bidirectional serialization of Java
>>objects to/from XML, Java persistence using XML, XML document pattern
>>matching
>>and many other goodies. it includes the source code for EXML and is free
>>for most commercial uses.
>>
>>cheers,
>>graham
>>
>>http://www.themindelectric.com
>>
>>-----Original Message-----
>>From: jdom-interest-admin at jdom.org
>>[mailto:jdom-interest-admin at jdom.org]On Behalf Of Justin Wood
>>Sent: Tuesday, February 12, 2002 12:17 AM
>>To: jdom-interest at jdom.org
>>Subject: [jdom-interest] JDOM vs electric
>>
>>
>>I had a look in the mail archives from last year regarding this topic.
>>Round about March Jason and Graham Glass (from the Mind Electric) did a bit
>>of mudslinging.
>>
>>http://www.servlets.com/archive/servlet/ReadMsg?msgId=7279&listName=jdom-in
>>
>t
>
>>erest
>>
>>Graham said he would amend his page:
>>
>>http://www.themindelectric.com/products/xml/jdom.html
>>
>>Which he hasn't done.   I'm sure that JDOM has come quite a way in the last
>>year and this page is even more out of date.   Has anyone done a benchmark?
>>Are there big differences, apart from the constuction of the XML object?
>>
>Has
>
>>anyone used both and done a pro's and cons?
>>
>>Regards
>>Justin
>>
>>_______________________________________________
>>To control your jdom-interest membership:
>>http://lists.denveronline.net/mailman/options/jdom-interest/youraddr@yourho
>>
>s
>
>>t.com
>>
>>
>>_______________________________________________
>>To control your jdom-interest membership:
>>http://lists.denveronline.net/mailman/options/jdom-interest/youraddr@yourho
>>
>st.com
>
>
>
>
>

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